Comments on: Pick Up That Can: The Problem With Interactive Objects I think it's important to review the origins of the interactive RPG's. The first game to implement interactive items was Dungeon Master by FTL. It was the first game where you could pick up a key, push a button, pull a lever - even insert a card. That was followed up by Eye of the Beholder by Westwood Associates and SSI. The same mechanics were implemented but much more refined. I think the last commercially successful game of this type was Lands of Lore and then the whole genre died. I think it was because of game play speed. It's just quicker and easier to press the "E" key or "F" key to open a door or use a device. There's La Noir and I give all credit due to the well thought out plot, interactive nature and just gritty smarts of the AI - but before that, there was just a void of interaction and as well as any feeling that the NPC actually exited in the environment other than to serve as banks, vendor or information giver. Look at World of Warcraft. The poor NPCs spend all their virtual lives standing behind a counter or next to a fire. Go to Outlands, which is deserted ..really do any of those NPC's make any sense any more? The next great development is real AI in games - I think LA Noir is on to something, but really it's not doing much more than what was going on in 1990. I think it’s important to review the origins of the interactive RPG’s. The first game to implement interactive items was Dungeon Master by FTL. It was the first game where you could pick up a key, push a button, pull a lever – even insert a card. That was followed up by Eye of the Beholder by Westwood Associates and SSI. The same mechanics were implemented but much more refined. I think the last commercially successful game of this type was Lands of Lore and then the whole genre died. I think it was because of game play speed. It’s just quicker and easier to press the “E” key or “F” key to open a door or use a device.

There’s La Noir and I give all credit due to the well thought out plot, interactive nature and just gritty smarts of the AI – but before that, there was just a void of interaction and as well as any feeling that the NPC actually exited in the environment other than to serve as banks, vendor or information giver. Look at World of Warcraft. The poor NPCs spend all their virtual lives standing behind a counter or next to a fire. Go to Outlands, which is deserted ..really do any of those NPC’s make any sense any more?

The next great development is real AI in games – I think LA Noir is on to something, but really it’s not doing much more than what was going on in 1990.

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By: Annie Moose/2011/03/31/pick-up-that-can-the-problem-with-interactive-objects/#comment-5570 Annie Moose Sun, 12 Jun 2011 18:00:06 +0000 Isn't Deus ex supposed to be known for its freedom of problem solving? that every challenge has multiple, if not many possible solutions? a half-life 2 style environment seems to me to be practically required - if players get really stuck on a puzzle, give them a hint button, which will cause the character to mutter to himself, 'I need to find something to break open that door - explosives, perhaps, or maybe something to break it down...', etc. I am, of course, assuming that they want to make a real spiritual successor to the (chronologically later) earlier deus ex games, and not just milk the franchise with a graphically updated installment which shares little beyond the name with its predecessor. Isn’t Deus ex supposed to be known for its freedom of problem solving? that every challenge has multiple, if not many possible solutions? a half-life 2 style environment seems to me to be practically required – if players get really stuck on a puzzle, give them a hint button, which will cause the character to mutter to himself, ‘I need to find something to break open that door – explosives, perhaps, or maybe something to break it down…’, etc.

I am, of course, assuming that they want to make a real spiritual successor to the (chronologically later) earlier deus ex games, and not just milk the franchise with a graphically updated installment which shares little beyond the name with its predecessor.

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By: Amelia/2011/03/31/pick-up-that-can-the-problem-with-interactive-objects/#comment-2400 Amelia Wed, 06 Apr 2011 16:35:25 +0000 Reminds me of the "future-ssing" mechanic in Telltale's latest Sam & Max adventure game where you can get hints as to what to do by seeing a small glimpse of the future of certain people/objects. While this might be an option for some cases, I could see if being problematic in some cases (though I doubt there is a "silver bullet" for this particular problem). If there are a lot of interactive objects it could get to be too much, and there are some games where you don't want the player the know the area beforehand so as to provide suspense or surprise. I'm struggling to remember actual examples, but I know sometimes games will pan a camera around a new area when you enter it, generally helping you draw your attention to important areas and potential routes you need to go. Agree with the perceived brightness of the outline being a bit much, maybe it just seems bad in the very dark environments? Possibly a fix might be to adjust the color of the outline with the general lighting of the area. If you are in a dark area then the outline wouldn't be as bright as it would if you were in a well-lit environment, for example. Reminds me of the “future-ssing” mechanic in Telltale’s latest Sam & Max adventure game where you can get hints as to what to do by seeing a small glimpse of the future of certain people/objects.

While this might be an option for some cases, I could see if being problematic in some cases (though I doubt there is a “silver bullet” for this particular problem). If there are a lot of interactive objects it could get to be too much, and there are some games where you don’t want the player the know the area beforehand so as to provide suspense or surprise.

I’m struggling to remember actual examples, but I know sometimes games will pan a camera around a new area when you enter it, generally helping you draw your attention to important areas and potential routes you need to go.

Agree with the perceived brightness of the outline being a bit much, maybe it just seems bad in the very dark environments? Possibly a fix might be to adjust the color of the outline with the general lighting of the area. If you are in a dark area then the outline wouldn’t be as bright as it would if you were in a well-lit environment, for example.

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By: Andrew Durdin/2011/03/31/pick-up-that-can-the-problem-with-interactive-objects/#comment-2180 Andrew Durdin Thu, 31 Mar 2011 17:31:09 +0000 Did everyone forget foreshadowing? It works just perfect in movies. Now, games and movies don't have much in common but I think it's worth trying - showing the interactive objects before the player gets to them - like a gallery of interactivity or cutscenes or something like that. But the question about gamers is two-sided, at least. Some don't like the decision because they have judged all the pros and cons and see the developers' decision as the wrong answer to the problems faced. But I've also seen many misguided fans trying to tell everyone what's best. So unless we get some hands on playtesting data, we won't know if their opinion is useful and how much. If there's a problem with it though, I'd say it's the brightness of the outline. It makes everything else look rather colorless and boring. It attracts the attention a bit too much in my opinion. I think that darker rim lighting would've done a better job with that. Did everyone forget foreshadowing? It works just perfect in movies. Now, games and movies don’t have much in common but I think it’s worth trying – showing the interactive objects before the player gets to them – like a gallery of interactivity or cutscenes or something like that.

But the question about gamers is two-sided, at least. Some don’t like the decision because they have judged all the pros and cons and see the developers’ decision as the wrong answer to the problems faced. But I’ve also seen many misguided fans trying to tell everyone what’s best. So unless we get some hands on playtesting data, we won’t know if their opinion is useful and how much.

If there’s a problem with it though, I’d say it’s the brightness of the outline. It makes everything else look rather colorless and boring. It attracts the attention a bit too much in my opinion. I think that darker rim lighting would’ve done a better job with that.

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By: Alex Rosenberg/2011/03/31/pick-up-that-can-the-problem-with-interactive-objects/#comment-2178 Alex Rosenberg Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:18:59 +0000 I remeber originally in WoW you had to mouse-over everything in the scene to find objects you could interact with and it was really tedious. I guess you were supposed to find them visually, but WoW has a really consistent art style and so there's a real 'wood for the trees' problem finding stuff visually. At some point (during the first expansion AFAIR) they added sparkles to all interactive objects - previously this effect was only used to indicate lootable corpses - and questing got a whole lot more enjoyable. I remeber originally in WoW you had to mouse-over everything in the scene to find objects you could interact with and it was really tedious. I guess you were supposed to find them visually, but WoW has a really consistent art style and so there’s a real ‘wood for the trees’ problem finding stuff visually. At some point (during the first expansion AFAIR) they added sparkles to all interactive objects – previously this effect was only used to indicate lootable corpses – and questing got a whole lot more enjoyable.

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