Comments on: What happened to the middle class of gaming? Haven't seen it indeed ^^ (have to admit need to visit Destructoid more often again...) And, there is not only a bit of bias but a lot being part of the discussion and look. Every definition, no matter triple-A, indie or middle-class is highly depending on your personal priorities: Is it just the money, is it a contract, publisher, country, handheld/console, etc. That's why I concluded to the "hidden middle-class" because I think otherwise you cannot find a definition, but it is definitely not dead. That was the only thing I got on when I first saw that news and that is why I started writing that this is my little rant ^^' But just to squeeze our minds a little bit: A game such as Yakuza is a highly addictive, great game and in my opinion a big production but based on its sales and perception in e.g. US or Europe it could be even an "indie" title... especially for the fan crowd that just likes Japan and Yakuza, but these are a minority... So we see again, everything depends on the personal point of view! Cheers Haven’t seen it indeed ^^ (have to admit need to visit Destructoid more often again…)

And, there is not only a bit of bias but a lot being part of the discussion and look. Every definition, no matter triple-A, indie or middle-class is highly depending on your personal priorities: Is it just the money, is it a contract, publisher, country, handheld/console, etc. That’s why I concluded to the “hidden middle-class” because I think otherwise you cannot find a definition, but it is definitely not dead. That was the only thing I got on when I first saw that news and that is why I started writing that this is my little rant ^^’

But just to squeeze our minds a little bit: A game such as Yakuza is a highly addictive, great game and in my opinion a big production but based on its sales and perception in e.g. US or Europe it could be even an “indie” title… especially for the fan crowd that just likes Japan and Yakuza, but these are a minority… So we see again, everything depends on the personal point of view!

Cheers

]]>
By: Matt Darling/2011/03/13/what-happened-to-the-middle-class-of-gaming/#comment-1615 Matt Darling Tue, 15 Mar 2011 14:35:19 +0000

Sounds like you and Jim would get along quite well :P I doubt you’ve seen his article, though, so it’s all fair. And his piece is shorter… even if you include the pictures.

At any rate, I wonder if there’s a bit of bias here: depending on how you look at it, a lot of what makes it out of Japan into English would be “middle class.” Your Atlus games, your Nippon Ichi games (Disgaea, Zettai Hero Project, etc.), a massive amount of DS games… They certainly aren’t Street Fighter or Final Fantasy games, but they’re not indie, either.

Of course, these games have to be successful in Japan, otherwise they’d never get translated. But they’re pretty middle-class among the total gamer population.

A lot of people use “indie” in a lot of different ways – not having a publisher, having no budget, having a small team, having a small game or unfulfilled premise… Same thing with AAA. If you’re a busy, AAA game developer and you don’t care about the way you define things, maybe don’t know about all the games that frequently fall between Call of Duty and The Path, sure, the middle class is gone. But what would you call Arcania: Gothic 4 in comparison to, say, Dragon Age II? At least in North America, I’d call it middle class. Perhaps it’s far more popular in Europe.

]]>
By: mcc/2011/03/13/what-happened-to-the-middle-class-of-gaming/#comment-1591 mcc Mon, 14 Mar 2011 19:46:54 +0000 Great post. Two things it makes me think about: First, it's a common thing today: middle class is the class that is always crushed. It's where a lot of people are and this is where they don't want to be, somehow: they want to be different (indie) or just plain rich (aaa). Few are really interested in being in some mild water, which is kind of sad. There's a polarization and people tend to go for both ends of a spectrum. It's the same with music taste, it's the same with movies and everything that we share and socialize with, including the worldwide economy: the middle class is dying while more people are getting very rich or very poor. The second point is how the market is. From a gamer point of view, going for the middle game is risky. You never really heard a lot about it while with extremes you know what's happening. The AAA will be safe -to the point of getting pretty boring these days- and the indie will be what you asked for because you need to be a connaisseur to know about it. So on one side there's a hefty price with a guaranteed entertainment and on the other side there's a small price and an interesting experience. The middle class game is risky. From a dev point of view well let's face it, consoles killed the gamedev middle class. You can't start and sustain a business of middle class games on the consoles of today, competing with very attractive trailers on one hand, and nice gameplay at 10$ or less on the other hand. It's doable on computers (I include the mobile market here), at least at a much better extent than with consoles, as we can see on Steam or how the Epic, ID and others started back in the 90s. IMO the middle class is the backbone everywhere. We need it and that's why game development feels so weird these days, way too polarized. Being in that gamedev middle class requires to be really good too, to be able to deliver with the worst case scenario: a small team and a small budget. With the platform mess and different generations of game developers, an insanely complex medium, it's really hard to create a great game that sells. But it will happen and I can't stop thinking about Chris Hecker's SpyParty or Jon Blow's The Witness as middle class game that I want so bad. It's all happening! Great post.

Two things it makes me think about:

First, it’s a common thing today: middle class is the class that is always crushed. It’s where a lot of people are and this is where they don’t want to be, somehow: they want to be different (indie) or just plain rich (aaa). Few are really interested in being in some mild water, which is kind of sad. There’s a polarization and people tend to go for both ends of a spectrum. It’s the same with music taste, it’s the same with movies and everything that we share and socialize with, including the worldwide economy: the middle class is dying while more people are getting very rich or very poor.

The second point is how the market is. From a gamer point of view, going for the middle game is risky. You never really heard a lot about it while with extremes you know what’s happening. The AAA will be safe -to the point of getting pretty boring these days- and the indie will be what you asked for because you need to be a connaisseur to know about it. So on one side there’s a hefty price with a guaranteed entertainment and on the other side there’s a small price and an interesting experience. The middle class game is risky.

From a dev point of view well let’s face it, consoles killed the gamedev middle class. You can’t start and sustain a business of middle class games on the consoles of today, competing with very attractive trailers on one hand, and nice gameplay at 10$ or less on the other hand. It’s doable on computers (I include the mobile market here), at least at a much better extent than with consoles, as we can see on Steam or how the Epic, ID and others started back in the 90s.
IMO the middle class is the backbone everywhere. We need it and that’s why game development feels so weird these days, way too polarized. Being in that gamedev middle class requires to be really good too, to be able to deliver with the worst case scenario: a small team and a small budget. With the platform mess and different generations of game developers, an insanely complex medium, it’s really hard to create a great game that sells.

But it will happen and I can’t stop thinking about Chris Hecker’s SpyParty or Jon Blow’s The Witness as middle class game that I want so bad. It’s all happening!

]]>
By: snake5/2011/03/13/what-happened-to-the-middle-class-of-gaming/#comment-1577 snake5 Mon, 14 Mar 2011 09:13:42 +0000