Comments on: Pane Control [...] If only people behind Visual Studio which took so many years of work put put a little more work in the editor and surprise all, increase the productivity of millions of programmers in the world in one fell swoop! artical source: Pane Control ? #AltDevBlogADay. [...] [...] If only people behind Visual Studio which took so many years of work put put a little more work in the editor and surprise all, increase the productivity of millions of programmers in the world in one fell swoop! artical source: Pane Control ? #AltDevBlogADay. [...]

]]>
By: Dylan Cuthbert/2011/04/08/pane-control/#comment-2916 Dylan Cuthbert Mon, 18 Apr 2011 07:42:29 +0000 +1, Dylan. Given how good some of the other tools in Visual Studio are, it constantly amazes me how rudimentary the editor is (the debugger has some obvious holes too, but that's another rant). Visual Assist makes the thing plausibly usable, but it's still clunky, and given what you pay for VS that stuff oughta be built-in. Anyhow, I've also settled on Slick with a lightly modified Brief keymap. It has the added advantage of being cross-platform, so you can take your productivity with you when doing iPhone on a Mac or game server code on Linux. +1, Dylan.

Given how good some of the other tools in Visual Studio are, it constantly amazes me how rudimentary the editor is (the debugger has some obvious holes too, but that’s another rant). Visual Assist makes the thing plausibly usable, but it’s still clunky, and given what you pay for VS that stuff oughta be built-in.

Anyhow, I’ve also settled on Slick with a lightly modified Brief keymap. It has the added advantage of being cross-platform, so you can take your productivity with you when doing iPhone on a Mac or game server code on Linux.

]]>
By: mousebird/2011/04/08/pane-control/#comment-2553 mousebird Sun, 10 Apr 2011 23:49:15 +0000 Don't generalize. Some of us who go for VS have tried alternatives. I have gone through phases of working with FrexxEd, Emacs, Brief, SlickEdit, MultiEdit, vim etc etc. So although I found them to be quite good at editing text - in some ways better than the VS editor, I don't feel that the overall cost is worth it. And I'm not talking about money. I mean stuff like setup, context switching when going to other people's machines or when going in/out of debugging etc etc. Also, I've never felt limited by the speed at which I can write or edit code. Navigation and code completion is much more important for me, and VA really works great for those things nowadays. Don’t generalize. Some of us who go for VS have tried alternatives. I have gone through phases of working with FrexxEd, Emacs, Brief, SlickEdit, MultiEdit, vim etc etc.

So although I found them to be quite good at editing text – in some ways better than the VS editor, I don’t feel that the overall cost is worth it. And I’m not talking about money. I mean stuff like setup, context switching when going to other people’s machines or when going in/out of debugging etc etc.

Also, I’ve never felt limited by the speed at which I can write or edit code. Navigation and code completion is much more important for me, and VA really works great for those things nowadays.

]]>
By: gavin burton/2011/04/08/pane-control/#comment-2527 gavin burton Sat, 09 Apr 2011 14:21:25 +0000 I haven't tried BRIEF, but I am learning how to use Emacs, and I must say that the ability to move around by line, word, sentence without moving my hands is saving me a lot of effort. If you move your hand to the arrow keys every time you navigate, you are 'doing it wrong'. Fortunately, they provide a free Emacs mode extension now, for VS 2010, but - sadly - they are not going to provide us with BRIEF emulation: <a href="http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en/vseditor/thread/d5af9b61-f7ff-4ae9-a894-d28f15024455" rel="nofollow">What does it take to get Brief emulation added back to VS 2010?</a> Read that topic for more information about why you'd want such thing. It's just much more productive. It's like WASD for editors. I haven’t tried BRIEF, but I am learning how to use Emacs, and I must say that the ability to move around by line, word, sentence without moving my hands is saving me a lot of effort.
If you move your hand to the arrow keys every time you navigate, you are ‘doing it wrong’.
Fortunately, they provide a free Emacs mode extension now, for VS 2010, but – sadly – they are not going to provide us with BRIEF emulation:
What does it take to get Brief emulation added back to VS 2010?
Read that topic for more information about why you’d want such thing.
It’s just much more productive.
It’s like WASD for editors.

]]>
By: Chris McLaughlin/2011/04/08/pane-control/#comment-2521 Chris McLaughlin Sat, 09 Apr 2011 13:02:07 +0000 What does it take to get Brief emulation added back to VS 2010?

The bottom line is that Microsoft simply doesn’t care about the small percentage of hardcore developers who knows what productivity means. :)

I am glad that they added Emacs emulation, but don’t wait up for Brief emulation.
They’re not going to add it. :(

]]>
By: Jacmoe/2011/04/08/pane-control/#comment-2516 Jacmoe Sat, 09 Apr 2011 12:27:52 +0000 I have nothing against your opinion, and neither was I offended by it :) Infact, I agree with the point that a fair segmentation of developers accept the tools they are familiar with and the faults thereof rather than explore different options that might better suit their needs. My comments and reaction are purely directed towards your claim of attempting to "open minds". I just feel you'd reach more people if you spent less effort ragging on Visual Studio and more time promoting the benefits of other tools. I guess my opinion is that your hostility encourages a defensive mindset, rather than an open one, in the very audience you want to reach. I have nothing against your opinion, and neither was I offended by it :) Infact, I agree with the point that a fair segmentation of developers accept the tools they are familiar with and the faults thereof rather than explore different options that might better suit their needs.

My comments and reaction are purely directed towards your claim of attempting to “open minds”. I just feel you’d reach more people if you spent less effort ragging on Visual Studio and more time promoting the benefits of other tools.

I guess my opinion is that your hostility encourages a defensive mindset, rather than an open one, in the very audience you want to reach.

]]>
By: Dylan Cuthbert/2011/04/08/pane-control/#comment-2512 Dylan Cuthbert Sat, 09 Apr 2011 11:04:22 +0000 No, as James says, your post sounds more like a rant than an article. As a VS + VA user that doesn't feel in any way held back by the quality of the editor I just found your article hostile, which diminished any real desire to follow up on any of it. Maybe the reason not enough people experiment with other editors is that whenever you read about one, it's coming from someone who just sounds over zealous about it. Honestly though I'm all for open mindedness, but also when working as part of a large team where other people regularly come to use your PC, consistency is an issue too. I have enough people complain they don't like my "natural" keyboard and ergonomic mouse without them sitting down and going "wtf?" at the editor on screen. No, as James says, your post sounds more like a rant than an article. As a VS + VA user that doesn’t feel in any way held back by the quality of the editor I just found your article hostile, which diminished any real desire to follow up on any of it. Maybe the reason not enough people experiment with other editors is that whenever you read about one, it’s coming from someone who just sounds over zealous about it.
Honestly though I’m all for open mindedness, but also when working as part of a large team where other people regularly come to use your PC, consistency is an issue too. I have enough people complain they don’t like my “natural” keyboard and ergonomic mouse without them sitting down and going “wtf?” at the editor on screen.

]]>
By: Dylan Cuthbert/2011/04/08/pane-control/#comment-2510 Dylan Cuthbert Sat, 09 Apr 2011 09:44:26 +0000 TextMate on the Mac is worth a dabble if you find yourself Apple way. TextMate on the Mac is worth a dabble if you find yourself Apple way.

]]>
By: Dylan Cuthbert/2011/04/08/pane-control/#comment-2508 Dylan Cuthbert Sat, 09 Apr 2011 09:42:03 +0000 In this matter, adaptability always trumps personal preference. I do agree that a lot of the editors found inside modern IDEs are lacking in both features and flexibility compared to proper text editing systems, but doing all work inside the ide usually has other productivity-enhancing side-effects. In this matter, adaptability always trumps personal preference. I do agree that a lot of the editors found inside modern IDEs are lacking in both features and flexibility compared to proper text editing systems, but doing all work inside the ide usually has other productivity-enhancing side-effects.

]]>
By: James Strain/2011/04/08/pane-control/#comment-2506 James Strain Sat, 09 Apr 2011 09:22:19 +0000 No, it's telling people not to be complacent. No, it’s telling people not to be complacent.

]]>
By: James Strain/2011/04/08/pane-control/#comment-2504 James Strain Sat, 09 Apr 2011 09:00:53 +0000 My VS environment is stripped of everything except for the code window. I have shortcuts for everything, and I almost never touch the mouse for 99% of my editing actions - honestly I can't even remember what those 1% actions are, but I'm sure I perform them :) I mostly only use the mouse when debugging, to mouse-over variables and see their values on the tool-tip, or to drag them to the watch window. I never have to cycle through hundreds of windows, even if I have millions of files open. With ALT-O I am a couple keystrokes away from every file in your solution, which is about 99% of the files I touch on a daily basis. Most of time I don't even care about file names, since VA's code navigation makes it so simple to pick at a file at the exact location you want, and then go back to where you were on the previous file. I tried pane editing in VS and I found it slower for me than simply using code location bookmarks. I think it's mostly because I feel claustrophobic by looking at code through small panes, and having to constantly scroll them. :) I believe VS + VA is a competitive environment in terms of efficiency, it's not perfect in every aspect, but I find it to be the most efficient environment for my daily use, especially since I code mostly for Windows or X360. With that said, I will give SlickEdit a try and see if it can convert me :) My VS environment is stripped of everything except for the code window. I have shortcuts for everything, and I almost never touch the mouse for 99% of my editing actions – honestly I can’t even remember what those 1% actions are, but I’m sure I perform them :)

I mostly only use the mouse when debugging, to mouse-over variables and see their values on the tool-tip, or to drag them to the watch window.

I never have to cycle through hundreds of windows, even if I have millions of files open. With ALT-O I am a couple keystrokes away from every file in your solution, which is about 99% of the files I touch on a daily basis. Most of time I don’t even care about file names, since VA’s code navigation makes it so simple to pick at a file at the exact location you want, and then go back to where you were on the previous file.

I tried pane editing in VS and I found it slower for me than simply using code location bookmarks. I think it’s mostly because I feel claustrophobic by looking at code through small panes, and having to constantly scroll them. :)

I believe VS + VA is a competitive environment in terms of efficiency, it’s not perfect in every aspect, but I find it to be the most efficient environment for my daily use, especially since I code mostly for Windows or X360.

With that said, I will give SlickEdit a try and see if it can convert me :)

]]>
By: Dylan Cuthbert/2011/04/08/pane-control/#comment-2500 Dylan Cuthbert Sat, 09 Apr 2011 03:24:01 +0000 I think it does make you more productive because your code navigation is more swift as a result - and you can manage multiple sets of code on the same screen simultaneously (tidying them up when you don't need them nice and quickly too). I think it does make you more productive because your code navigation is more swift as a result – and you can manage multiple sets of code on the same screen simultaneously (tidying them up when you don’t need them nice and quickly too).

]]>
By: Dylan Cuthbert/2011/04/08/pane-control/#comment-2498 Dylan Cuthbert Sat, 09 Apr 2011 03:17:58 +0000 This article hit home with me. I am also using brief in Slickedit for all my coding needs (and a lot of non-coding needs also). Before that I was using brief emulation in CodeWright, and before that, brief emulation in multi-edit. They supported brief in past versions of VS, but it was very buggy to the point where it was easier just to run without it. I find it interesting that I'm one of the few programmers I know who tends to have 2 to 4 code panes open 95% of the time, mainly due to getting into brief habits years ago. I find it hard to work in the single code window model and having to cycle backward and forward through buffers all the time. I do wonder if it does make me more productive or if it's simply an ingrained workflow habit at this point though. This article hit home with me. I am also using brief in Slickedit for all my coding needs (and a lot of non-coding needs also). Before that I was using brief emulation in CodeWright, and before that, brief emulation in multi-edit. They supported brief in past versions of VS, but it was very buggy to the point where it was easier just to run without it. I find it interesting that I’m one of the few programmers I know who tends to have 2 to 4 code panes open 95% of the time, mainly due to getting into brief habits years ago. I find it hard to work in the single code window model and having to cycle backward and forward through buffers all the time. I do wonder if it does make me more productive or if it’s simply an ingrained workflow habit at this point though.

]]>
By: Promit-Roy/2011/04/08/pane-control/#comment-2495 Promit-Roy Sat, 09 Apr 2011 01:35:17 +0000 Yup. I use vi. I really haven't ever come across a reason to change that. I really have never like it "gets in my way" like so many other editors do. Especially editing in Visual Studio, which is pretty terrible by default. There is no way that I'm even remotely as effective in any other editing environment (including, and especially, Visual Studio + Visual Assist + whatever other plugin you want.) Partially long years of practice, for sure. But whatever. It works for me. Yup. I use vi. I really haven’t ever come across a reason to change that. I really have never like it “gets in my way” like so many other editors do. Especially editing in Visual Studio, which is pretty terrible by default. There is no way that I’m even remotely as effective in any other editing environment (including, and especially, Visual Studio + Visual Assist + whatever other plugin you want.) Partially long years of practice, for sure. But whatever. It works for me.

]]>
By: Peter Featherstone/2011/04/08/pane-control/#comment-2493 Peter Featherstone Fri, 08 Apr 2011 23:30:10 +0000 Wow Dave Herod, you don't know what you are talking about.. nor what you're missing. Emacs, and probably the other editors mentioned, is known to be totally customized in every way, including - of course - the keyboard shortcuts. Why not have the best of both worlds? And use SlickEdit or Emacs? You'll love to be able to do everything with both hands on your keyboard. :) Wow Dave Herod, you don’t know what you are talking about.. nor what you’re missing.
Emacs, and probably the other editors mentioned, is known to be totally customized in every way, including – of course – the keyboard shortcuts.
Why not have the best of both worlds? And use SlickEdit or Emacs?
You’ll love to be able to do everything with both hands on your keyboard. :)

]]>
By: tomp/2011/04/08/pane-control/#comment-2489 tomp Fri, 08 Apr 2011 22:10:13 +0000 Better yet, use the VSE plugin for visual studio.. *mind explosion* Also, BRIEF for life! Better yet, use the VSE plugin for visual studio.. *mind explosion*

Also, BRIEF for life!

]]>
By: Dave Herod/2011/04/08/pane-control/#comment-2477 Dave Herod Fri, 08 Apr 2011 13:18:20 +0000 Visual Studio + Visual Assist > all that old skool crap! :P Seriously. Visual Studio + Visual Assist > all that old skool crap! :P

Seriously.

]]>
By: Rob Ashton/2011/04/08/pane-control/#comment-2475 Rob Ashton Fri, 08 Apr 2011 12:11:27 +0000 <blockquote>probably because Visual Studio has everything built-in</blockquote> Visual studio doesn't have much built in, unfortunately... as far as I can see you have to download or buy all sorts of plugins from the net to make it functional.

probably because Visual Studio has everything built-in

Visual studio doesn’t have much built in, unfortunately… as far as I can see you have to download or buy all sorts of plugins from the net to make it functional.

]]>